Natural Horsemans**t

[intouch]

Not all NH is for the good of the horse...............

http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebaumsworld.com%2Fvideo%2 Fwatch%2F80925308&h=1a4ba5c287e78b041817d7f85b241ffc

[Welsh Girl]

Oh dear. :help:

I have debated this clip at length on another forum already. Why oh why does she keep on yanking at him with so much force and yet so ineffectively? Its clear the horse is a bargy space invader, but clearly she is ineffective and just upsetting the horse.

No timing, no feel.

[rambling]

Saw this on another forum and was shocked to read that it is actually part of the teaching DVD.

Bargy Space invader or just plain mixed up horse who did not know where he was supposed to be?

Don't see him as a pushy horse he seems very innocuous to me. Can't see too many other horses taking that abuse so quietly, and certainly can't see what he was supposed to have learnt from that ridiculous and abusive performance , she was beside herself with temper. Surely one of the first rules of teaching or dealing with animals is control yourself.

Could she not just have put him where she wanted him and put him back again if he moved? If she wanted his constant attention surely she should have given him little tasks to do and praised him. I'm sure he would have learnt quickly if taught properly.

The frightening thing is that gullible horse owners have paid a lot of money to be taught that
sort of abuse.

[Welsh Girl]

I was too quick to label the horse. On closer examin, at the begining of the clip she is actually pulling the horse towards her, mixed intentions.

Her intention is not being made clear to the horse and she clearly has no idea of the concept "pressure & release". The pressure is constant and escalating, and even when the horse moves away she doesn't release or give him another task. Clearly this horse is excited with his surroundings and needs his mind focussed positively.

Can anyone enlighten me on the body language (if thats what it is) where she looks like she's doing the "birdy dance"?

I too was shocked to find out its part of a training video, to continually bombard a horse like this with so much pressure when clearly its not meaning anything to the horse is pointless.

[rambling]

Don't want to look at it again its too distressing.
The birdy dance do you mean the part where she's hitting or nearly hitting him about the face and head only she's not tall enough?

[Little-Miss-Muppet]

oh god thats just depressing :sad: the poor animal has no idea what she wants. He moves away he is punished, he moves close he is punished, he stands his ground he is punished! You can nearly hear him thinking what do you want from me woman. What a moron I am gutted to think someone is paying her to do that and worse that its a training dvd?! :wtf:

She may think she is trying to achieve something but seems to have no concept of her body language or positioning in context with the horses. He is only invading her space because she has inadvertently asked him to by her own actions and he does not know where he is meant to be!

[High_Stepper]

I don't agree that horse is innocuous - he's so distracted he's mow you down if he so choose, he's all over her even when she's waving all she's got at him! He stays determined to phase her out though. He could be dangerous, he doesn't give a fiddle where she's standing.

I don't know enough about timing but it looks to me like he's completely resistant to everything, but you can see him starting to show her some respect backing up later on.

I can't see the point in mollycoddling a horse to back up when it's not rocket science for them to figure out how to do it. He was very determined to ignore her!

[High_Stepper]

WG the birdy dance, do you mean that little shuffle thing? Yea what is that all about? :confused:

LPs voice does my nut in. I thought she was not in the new training stuff? TBH (and bearing in mind I don't know anything about parelli training) I do know how GREAT it is to see any training when it's NOT going according to the textbook plan so I can see why they'd show the troubleshooting sessions.

WG you'd know all about the timing - tell me, is that horse even disengaging at all? I thought even that looked not quite right..

[Little-Miss-Muppet]

If you want a horse to stand, stand him and reward him for doing so. If he moves put him back where you want him and repeat it. Its learning by repetition with horses. I don't believe in mollycoddling a horse at all but I dont believe in what she is doing either - if you want them to do something give a clear instruction, if they invade your space be stronger and stand your ground and repeat what you want.

Im sorry but what that woman is doing in that video to me is no way to encourage him to stand still or back up. Shaking a rope and snapping at his head is asking for what exactly? for him to come towards her as she is chucking at his head which he does and then she is all over the place and doesnt know where to put herself let alone him - her body languaga doesnt say back up it says im scared of you and dont know where to put myself. At one point he does back off and stands still away from her and she starts shouting at him to pay attention?!

Ironically - would basic lunging techniques such as those thought in the BHS course not have been an effective way of asking this horse to learn to move away from his handler ? I would certainly think so. I would sooner see someone using a lunge whip or the end of the rope correctly or effectively to ask a horse to move away than to jerk at his head with a long rein and snap it at him!

[Welsh Girl]

WG the birdy dance, do you mean that little shuffle thing? Yea what is that all about? :confused:

LPs voice does my nut in. I thought she was not in the new training stuff? TBH (and bearing in mind I don't know anything about parelli training) I do know how GREAT it is to see any training when it's NOT going according to the textbook plan so I can see why they'd show the troubleshooting sessions.

WG you'd know all about the timing - tell me, is that horse even disengaging at all? I thought even that looked not quite right..

No dissengaing of the hind at all! If you look at his feet he just kind of shuffles while still gawking around himself. She doesn't see anything through. If she would only have got to his feet with something she would have got to his mind and it would have been sorted in seconds rather than the tortuous minutes that horse endured.

When she does "the birdy dance" she seems to be just chasing him around with no clear intention (a repetative theme there). Another oppertunity for the horse to Zone her out.

Her body language is not clear at all and often when she is asking the horse to back up she is backing away herself, therfore encouraging the horse to her. Her response is then to ambush him with way too much pressure. Give the horse a chance!

I would love to drop her into a roundpen with some of the horses I have known, even my own OTTB when we first got him. If you gave him any kind of mixed signals, confused him, and then just ambushed him in temper like in this video, his response would have been mind blowing!!!

[rambling]

OMG Just read on another forum that the poor unfortunate animal only has one eye. They are saying if you maximise the vid you can see it.
Obviously a one eyed horse needs to be moving his head around in order to see. FFS :rant:
Not going back to check it for myself, although if its true it makes it doubly abusive.

[xxkarenxx]

That poor horse :eek: People like that moron need to be walloped upside the head with a rope :(

You would imagine there is far easier and more effective ways to teach a horse basic manners than this idiotic practice. People who pay for this are even more stupid. I can't get over the fact that people will pay for this sort of treatment when common sense would have taught the horse to keep back and behave.

[Alibear]

That is just unbelievable... :sad: I'm very surprised that the horse didn't react to being trashed by the rope; I am pretty sure if I were to try that 'method' (if it can even be called that...) with my horse he would not be as obliging as the horse in the video.

I can't believe people pay €400 + for the set of Parelli DVDs, to watch something like THAT being taught.

[Alibear]

Also, was she trying to reward the horse at the very end of the video...? It looked like she was smacking, rather than patting, the horse and he was shying away from her.

[Teegee]

What I find particularily worrying is that people buy this - and take it that this is the right way.

I have witnessed some very strange Parelli techniques from devoted followers, and shall refrain from giving my opinion on the whole Parelli movement in general.

[Red Rosette]

I could'nt bear to look at that again. I reckon if that horse was dangerous he would have reared up and bolted long before that stupid woman was finished - where do they come from and who in their right mind would let her near their horse? and pay for the experience.

[nixjordan7]

OK so I know basically nothing about natural horsemanship but I have seen quite a few bits on tv etc...to me it seems like a kind of brain washing!! I think its crazy and I personally would not be a big fan, BUT, like I said I have little experience....after saying all that..anybody, I mean ANYBODY can see from this vid this is not how you treat any horse or animal. Awful.

[rambling]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thzc8lPaHaw

You can see in this one that the unfortunate horse only has ONE EYE

[Alibear]

Unbelievable :no:

[Sissco]

Omg that is just shocking the poor horse is getting clucked by the clip and it only has one eye! Disgraceful that people thake this as being correct. Iclaim to know very little about natural horsemanship but this is so horrible to watch theres no way its natural!

[Lark]

I honestly do not understand how LP thought a horse with one eye could be tempted to stop 'swinging his head around'!!
My free lesson to LP:
Linda a horse is a flight animal...they have eyes to the side of their heads to enable them to constantly assess the situation around them ....as this horse has only one eye he needs to make some modifications...this requires him to move his head around....LIVE WITH IT.
Bill for $400 in the post.

[Colivet]

I have seen this on a number of different boards and have not commented - TBH because it makes me very angry that "disciples" of this training method (I use the term loosely) are quite often completely blinkered to any other way of working with a horse.

I can only echo what Teegee said - it is disturbing that otherwise intelligent people seem to follow the teachings like a cult and pay good money to do so. Other than that I will not comment on the movement/people involved.

PS - on another board I saw a clip of the time preceding LP taking over the horse and I saw no evidence of barging, space invading or any other dangerous behaviour - just a horse looking around trying to take in his surroundings.

[Little-Miss-Muppet]

PS - on another board I saw a clip of the time preceding LP taking over the horse and I saw no evidence of barging, space invading or any other dangerous behaviour - just a horse looking around trying to take in his surroundings.

which with one eye and all would require the poor thing to move its head!

It mad intelligent people pay for this sort of thing but I often think its because they want a short cut / a quick fix / a substitute for they themselves having to learn/do something new and not the horse. Intelligent people often succeed easily in other areas in life such as in careers so having to put the work into a horse and having to change themselves and not just the animal does not appeal as much as branding the animal the problem and looking to just throw money and the 'problem' and fix it.

[Niamhy]

On glancing at this video on FB.. I had presumed it was some body messing around in their backgarden or something.. It was that bad looking.. I cant believe this is LP.. wow.

[Welsh Girl]

Linda Parelli responds:

http://www.parellinaturalhorsetraining.com/A-statement-from-Linda-Parelli

[Little-Miss-Muppet]

If I was seeing this clip with no knowledge of what exactly was going on, I think I would get upset too! It invites a lot of questions if one doesn’t know what the situation or the outcome was.

The absolute sheer arrogance of that woman. Yes LP we are up in arms because unlike you we are too uneducated to "understand" what you are trying to achieve through this "leadership". Obviously as a non parelli practitioner I "don't know what the situation or the outcome was". Personally I don't give a flying **** what the outcome was thats no way to treat a horse who has one eye and is reacting to something he is afraid of. "Leadership" and "bullying" are two different things and I know which I would class this one as.

As for the owner who is dellusional enough to think it was worth paying for this type of nonsense - god I am so in the wrong business. :rollseyes:

[Alibear]

Such a load of b.......:rollseyes:

Of course the horse was tuning in the what was going on around him, a blind or partially sighted horse is much more sensitive to sounds and movement. There are other ways to get a horse to 'focus' on you...

[Jester Mule]

that video is very chilling and upsetting. i can't find the words.